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Desc:In case you forgot why you love this series.
Category:Classic Movies, Cartoons & Animation
Tags:Cowboy Bebop, Yoko Kanno, anime that doesnt suck
Submitted:MurgatroidMendelbaum
Date:04/09/14
Views:2064
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Comment count is 51
Bort - 2014-04-09
That poor janitor was just trying to clean the wall. I hate it when white collar types mistreat blue collar workers.
MacGyver Style Bomb - 2014-04-09
Grade A sound editing.
oddeye - 2014-04-10
Heard this was good, never tried watching it because the main guy smokes. Should I try it and is there a version that edits out all smoking references, like they did with DBZ?
Comeuppance - 2014-04-10
I'm pretty sure this is from a movie, or something. I don't recall this scene at all, and I'm about 100% sure I've seen all of the episodes.

There's no de-smoking version I'm aware of, and there are a number of scenes where the mood or the action directly involves cigarettes, the smoke, or the smoking of them. How do you go about daily life if you can't WITNESS someone smoking?

oddeye - 2014-04-10
I suppose I could tolerate it if it was viewed as a negative trait in a "jizzed in your grandma's empty eye sockets" kind of tvtropes deal.

Kabbage - 2014-04-10
I mean pretty much every character in this show smokes which is pretty shitty, but for Spike at least, I thought it was supposed to be part of his whole dead-man-walking don't-expect-to-live-forever recklessness deal.

oddeye - 2014-04-10
Is he shown suffering the ill effects of a chronic smoking habit?

Smoking is a terrible but frequent device used to denote a "devil-may-care" borderline sociopathic attitude. Guess this makes sense given that these characters are slowly killing the very people they are often trying to protect.

jaunch - 2014-04-10
Geez, oddeye, you really hate smoking.

oddeye - 2014-04-10
If I were Superman I would take everyone over 17 who started or continued smoking after the health risks were exposed and blast them into the sun with a raging torrent of rancid super jizz straight from my super prostate. Tack pedos of any age and other, but not all, sex criminals on there. Maybe "people" who enjoy TF2 as well, but only if they are older than 17.

I am not Superman so I have to settle with posting messages on the internet which an unfortunate few might accidentally read, devalue and ultimately forget.

So is this cartoon any good then?

Aelric - 2014-04-10
As for Cowboy Bepop, I'd recommend it for the most part. A lot of it doesn't hold up 15 years later, but there are still some decent episodes. I never really liked the movie, though. I always thought it's stand alone episodes are best.

Of course, it's all moot if you require an iron lung scene or a PSA about the dangers of smoking to watch it. You know, it's not the worlds job to bend to your personal quirks. It's a sylistic choice since this show used a lot of noir tropes. If you don't want to see it, don't watch it.

oswaldtheluckyrabbit - 2014-04-10
These comments are so casually insane

oddeye - 2014-04-10
If a cartoon showed a character repeatedly committing heinous crimes against humanity as a way to set the atmosphere of the show, wouldn't you expect the character to get called on it and subsequently suffer penalties? Isn't tolerating a war crime or making concessions for pure evil the same as endorsing it?

EvilHomer - 2014-04-10
No, tolerating something is tolerating something. But I see where you're coming from! Secondhand smoke is a war crime, and Cowboy Bebop is worse than Hitler.

I'd avoid it, if I were you.

EvilHomer - 2014-04-10
Also, just a thought, what would happen if future doctors were to discover that dick chuffing is carcinogenic? Would you then reevaluate the Ultimate Warrior's legacy?

chairsforcheap - 2014-04-10
5 for oddeye literally being insane or off his meds right now...

dubz - 2014-04-10
Good God look at all those crazy words. Smoke a weed, chill the fuck out, watch space cowboys kick bad guys in the face.

ashtar. - 2014-04-10
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ySCcnoo3c

The health risks are more than outweighed by how it makes you not an obnoxious sanctimonious prick.

kingofthenothing - 2014-04-10
Let me just ruin the show for you right now: Spike dies in the end.

You're welcome.

Aelric - 2014-04-10
Listen, oddeye. I really get grossed out at depictions of ritualized or methodical violence due to the concept of people coldly enacting these preconceived ideas, i.e. serial killer stuff. Due to this, I never watched Dexter despite the recommendations of everyone around me. I think that it's fine for Dexter to exist, but I knew that I was going to have a problem watching it, so I didn't. I didn't demand there be some violence-free version or it, or that it should be shut down, I just didn't watch it. It was profoundly easy not to watch it. The problem was solved.

I don't think it's got to be black hat/white hat morality in shows or movies or games or what have you. Moral abiguity is a driving force in making characters interesting because it humanizes them. There are no clear cut good people/bad people. It's just people and the actions they take through life, some good, some bad. How that tally balances out is largely variable in the eyes of the beholder, but it's never been all one side or the other.

Thus, I don't think it's a reasonable judgment to see that someone smokes and equate that to a war crime or demand that they get some comeuppance for that specific thing. If life was about keeping the karmic balance at a perfect 0:0 ratio, not one human being would be left alive or at least have a life worth living. And all media would be bland, gray, inoffensive garbage.

Of course, as it's been stated here, you are clearly insane or trolling right now for whatever reason, which means I'm engaging with a crazy person or troll on the internet, which in turn means I must be feeling a little crazy myself. I don't recall you being crazy in past comments, but maybe I just never noticed. Either way, I can't imagine you being all the fun at parties.

Sanest Man Alive - 2014-04-10
oddeye were you naturally gifted to be a living speedbump for public discourse, or did you have to work at it?

NancyDrewFan123 - 2014-04-10
Wow, did not see this meltdown coming. This is why I'll always click on a POEtv anime link.

Nominal - 2014-04-10
This has been a really bad week for oddeye.

poopy - 2014-04-10
*****

Jet Bin Fever - 2014-04-10
I think cigarettes will go the way of snuff in our lifetimes. Outdated, disgusting practices that people wonder how we ever tolerated. I don't think smokers should be shot into the sun in a stream of jizz or whatever the fuck that was. But, I do pity them for adopting a really shitty, expensive habit, and I think they smell like shit.

Jet Bin Fever - 2014-04-10
oh god, I forgot the dual-meaning of snuff. I mean the nasal tobacco snuff, not the kind you get off to.

oddeye - 2014-04-11
Why can't it be both?

MurgatroidMendelbaum - 2014-04-10
If anything, oddeye should be outraged that this is essentially a future where the military-industrial complex controls the culture and infrastructure of the entire human race. Private citizens can cross interplanetary borders to assault and apprehend anyone through universal jurisdiction. They can transport and pilot unregistered fighter jets and exchange explosives, firearms, and ammunition casually. What kind of message does this send to the children, for God's sake?
Aelric - 2014-04-10
I think oddeye is the entire graduating class of The Evergreen State College in 2001.

Sudan no1 - 2014-04-10
Bravely rated, CapnS.
oddeye - 2014-04-10
For discourse and to counter cowards.

TheOtherCapnS - 2014-04-10
Love Cowboy Bebop, hate dubs. No, I'm not being a snob or a weeaboo or a beardo; I watch movies from all around the world, and I watch them with subtitles because even in a different language you can pick up on all kinds of things in a good actor's performance, and dubs completely ruin that.

I'm sure this is considered high-quality as far as anime dubs go, but Steven Blum is such a shitty, emotionless voice actor, yet is so highly regarded that I get near apoplectic whenever confronted with one of his "performances" (e.g. monotonously reading lines and excessively grunting). Seriously if you watch this and then watch it with the original audio (like I had to do to erase the dub from my memory) there's about 10x as much grunting. It's like he thinks that grunting = ACTING!

So yes, I left my rating and excluded the rant because I wanted to spare myself the virtual poo-flinging that will likely follow this post, and because I thought we stopped doing "bravely rated, x" back in the aughts.

Nominal - 2014-04-10
But that does make you a weeaboo snob. Much how evil never considers itself evil, EVERY anti-dub weeaboo thinks they're the exception because only THEIR tastes and ability to pick up oh so subtle performance nuances are good enough to declare all dubs trash.

TheOtherCapnS - 2014-04-10
http://i.imgur.com/NRaLtyR.gif

EvilHomer - 2014-04-10
OK, oddeye. What if I was to tell you that there was a group of people who, statistically, had a much higher chance of contracting horrible diseases than anyone else, and that these diseases are both life-threatening and difficult to treat. This disease-rate is linked directly to their lifestyle choices, and furthermore, these lifestyle choices are routinely glamorized and promoted on TV, in movies, in books, and even in our classrooms.


What would you say?




I'd say: so what? Because, Freedom. Your body and your health is your own business; it is not up to me to dictate your lifestyle to you. *Even if* the potential benefits of "playing it safe" were to objectively and measurably outweigh the costs to your quality of life incurred by giving up your lifestyle, it STILL wouldn't be any of my business. I might *encourage* you to change your ways. I might do something like go to a college and give a speech voicing my concerns (because that's what any good college is there for, right? Free discourse and debate), but I certainly wouldn't refuse to associate myself, even tangentially, with you. I "might" do all that... but to be honest, I wouldn't even go that far, because frankly your lifestyle DOESN'T bother me, and I'm GLAD you're able to do something you like, risk or no risk! The Rainbow has many colors, and really, what good is living if you can't do something dangerous now and then?

If you're really upset over people making bad health decisions (let's assume good faith here, just for the sake or argument - troll or not, it's an interesting discussion), then perhaps you should focus your energy on treatment and care, rather than on sin-shaming and nitpicky social engineering?
oddeye - 2014-04-10
I don't care if people of sound mind make an EDUCATED CHOICE to kill themselves. That is none of my business.
Smoking affects the health of everyone in proximity, often children living in the household. This is eternally unacceptable.
Buying gear generates profit for companies who have the sole purpose of selling wholesale mass murder. Profits fund advertising, advertising misleads, etc. sure you know where this is going. Gradually this dire situation has been slowly tempered in the first world. In many other parts of the world the rampant death machine reins supreme.
If second hand smoke only straight-up murdered specific people over 17 then I would be a tobacco peddler. It doesn't. Unforgivable.

Aelric - 2014-04-10
Oddeye, on one hand, you are totally right about smoking and the tobacco companies and the irresponsibility of second-hand smoke. On the other hand, you are being an asshole and no one listens to an asshole, regardless of how right they may be. You kill your own argument with this expectation for media to conform to your prescribed morality. That is what everyone here is laughing at you for. Not because they disagree, it's pretty common opinion that smoking is terrible these days. You may find that not coming on so strong actually strengthens an argument.

I am going to take a guess and say that such strong feelings come from a personal tragedy in your life. A kid in your family or a friend dying from cancer or other problems due to second hand smoke. I mean, I can only asume that is what could make someone irrationally demand media demonize any representation of smoking regardless of context or format. If that is the case, than I am sorry for your loss, but screaming on the internet is not really how you will affect anything resembling positive change. Especially considering that this is a cartoon, for adults, from another country, purposefully using traits from noir and was produced nearly 20 years ago. It has good traits and negative traits and all those things are in the eye of the beholder. Not liking it is fine, and for that reason is fine, but it's hardly objective. And vilifying any character that possesses a negative trait is a poor, bland way to look at media of any form. It's the view of a zealot, and zealotry of ANY cause is more harmful than anything else I know on Earth, including cigarettes.

Anyway, as I said before, you are acting kinda nuts, or trollish, and I really should stop engaging. I kinda hope you are a troll, to be honest, because the only reasons I can think to motivate you otherwise are fairly tragic.

oddeye - 2014-04-10
I appreciate that Aleric. Nothing terribly bad ever happened to me and no one I ever cared about has died from anything. I'm glad you recognise the gist of my message as correct and I will be the first to admit that sometimes I misplace the odd word.
Aside from being tortured to death, I am often treated in a similar manner to the mythological jesus christ. We were both laughed at, ignored, misunderstood and outright hated for proclaiming the truth.
I am not jesus christ (before you jump to conclusions) and although I am not an atheist I have no spiritual beliefs what-so-ever.
All this derailment stemmed from simply asking if there was a no smoking edit ala DBZ and I'm the "troll" having a meltdown?
I am averse to "talking head" videos (not the brilliant band) where some screwball waffles on about lasers from venus caused by black homosexuals and whatnot but I'm considering making something short to "enforce truth" so to speak.

Aelric - 2014-04-10
You had me for the first part of that comment, and then you started comparing yourself to Jesus and talking heads and black homosexuals and none of those things relate to another and this is where you lose me.

Listen, there are merits to media that don't demonize, or even glamorize smoking. Are they factually accurate? No. are they part of a style? Yes. There is nothing wrong with a smoking cartoon meant for adults. There Is something wrong with blowing smoke in a toddlers face. They are separate, unrelated things. Don't take my telling you that you are right about smoking being bad as approval for your delusional expectation that there should be a directly relatable comeuppance for smoking whenever it's depicted. You are still totally nuts.

Jet Bin Fever - 2014-04-11
Skipping past the strange back and forth to the original comment, I want to refute your use of "Freedom" up there, Homer.
Only the first couple times you choose to smoke a cigarette could you argue that you doing it out of "freedom". After that it is purely addiction and compulsion. It is the complete opposite of freedom. You are enslaved to the product. If you don't have it you feel like shit.
So, I don't think that the "freedom" to choose a few times outweighs the thousands of times you are -compelled- to pick up a cigarette. Also, who is to say if those first couple times are even free to begin with. They're probably inspired by friends, relatives, rebellion, whatever,... and not a sincere, well-thought-out choice by the individual.

EvilHomer - 2014-04-11
Ah. So as long as TEENAGERS aren't being gay, people with STDs don't have kids, and no one within the LGBT community makes a profit selling sex toys, under those conditions, you'd find queering acceptable? Otherwise, queering is a warcrime, I take it. Wonderful, oddeye.

And JBF, people who are addicted may still want to continue partaking in their substance of choice. If you're addicted AND you want to quit, then of course I'd support your decision, and I'd like to help you! But there's this pervasive myth in our post-Nancy Reagan world that anyone who is addicted is suddenly stripped of all individual preference; that upon your third cigarette or your third shot of heroin or your third straight day of Everquest, you suddenly WANT to quit, whether you realize it or not. And this isn't true. Not all addicts have clean citizens inside trying to get out.

I fully support anyone who voluntarily decides to fight against their lifestyle, whether by going to rehab, buying e-cigs, attending ex-gay camps, or joining an online Stop the Clop brony support group. I may not always agree with your decision (I don't think being gay is a compulsion you'd HAVE to fix), just as I may not have agreed with your decision to start in the first place (heroin is very bad for your health! Please don't do it!). I work with a lot of addicts, so I'm not trying to belittle recovery or downplay health concerns. But the important thing to remember is, being "compelled" towards something does NOT mean you wouldn't still do this thing voluntarily.

EvilHomer - 2014-04-11
( And in case it wasn't clear, in the OP I was referring to homosexual activity and the prevalence of STDs, although the very same pattern of thinking applies equally to cigarette smoking, MMO playing, and other health-conscious moral panics. I think *most* of us would agree, without hesitation, that homosexuality is fine, and that no amount of citing doom-and-gloom AIDS statistics or harping on about how homosexuality is "a compulsion" (not a choice!) would persuade us to embrace, or rather, RE-embrace, a society-wide, Oddeye-style policy of sin shaming and ostracism. So why not stick by our principles and extend this courtesy to smokers? )

oddeye - 2014-04-11
Huh? There is nothing wrong with homosexuality between consenting adults. Are they DELIBERATELY contracting AIDS and spreading it around? If so they deserve to die.

Sanest Man Alive - 2014-04-10
I wish more fight and chase scenes were set to bebop jazz.
Caminante Nocturno - 2014-04-10
Clearly, I am the most mature person on this site.
Nikon - 2014-04-10
I'm not going to rate because I don't do dubs. The comments above were pretty fun to read through.
Nominal - 2014-04-10
5 stars, because just when I start thinking this site is mostly normal, something like this comes along and jars me out of the lull. Who knew such a big chunk of people here were fanatical anime subtitle weeaboos?
Aelric - 2014-04-10
It's very often anime that brings this stuff out, isn't it?

Jet Bin Fever - 2014-04-11
So liking any anime at all makes you a weeaboo? I think you don't know what that term really means. Would you accuse people in other countries that like American movies of being in love with America? Probably not.
It's one thing to like a certain TV show or movie on its merits, having preference for the original language or voice actors, and it is a completely other thing to exoticize, romanticize, or sexualize a false cultural view that you have based off a tiny, obscure slice of the culture it originated from.

Nikon - 2014-04-11
@Jet Bin Fever

Weeaboo is a term that gets thrown about too casually nowadays.

Comeuppance - 2014-04-11
people who unjustly call other people weeaboo should be shot

i mean its basically a war crime

MacGyver Style Bomb - 2014-04-11
What the fuck, guys? What the fuck.
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