|infinite zest |
I'm still catching up here; was it the cartoon that caused the attack or the newspaper's very existence?
There's always a tendency to say "oh those Muslims", but "fortunately", the previous day there was a less celebrated story out of Colorado Springs, about a bomb set off at an NAACP office (nobody hurt thanks to shitty craftsmanship):
And there's this detail:
According to the the FBI, officials are seeking a "potential person of interest," described as a balding white male, about 40 years old.
"He may be driving a 2000 or older model dirty, white pick-up truck with paneling, a dark colored bed liner, open tailgate, and a missing or covered license plate," the FBI said in a statement said.
I would bet anything the driver is a "good" right-wing Christian who, as has been done for centuries in America, is happy to bundle his concepts of religion, patriotism, and racial superiority into one big ball of shitheadedness. There's a reason the KKK's symbol is a burning cross.
So it ain't just Muslims pulling violent shit; extremism can and does manifest anywhere an ideology exists.
Yeah, interestingly enough you can scroll almost all the way to the bottom of Huffington Post and there's one little headline, "FBI Says NAACP Explosion Could Be Domestic Terrorism"
and instead one of the top things I should read is "Why You Should Eat Avocado Every Day." I love 54Evil for its comments but I still have to turn to sources like Huffpo for breaking news. At this point I have the same problem with Aljazeera. Like, I don't have a problem with Avocado, in fact I just ate one for breakfast before seeing the article, but something about the words "Could Be Domestic Terrorism" are a little more important to me, especially since Colorado's not too far away from Oregon.
However, the other related article was a link to this:
I guess if I just spend what looks like a boring day at work playing Prince of Persia, all the world's problems will just go away.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you premise, but the attempt at the NAACP building seems less news-worthy for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, no one was hurt.
I can't deny that, and honestly I'm glad I didn't have a "better" example.
Odds are, avocados will affect your life more directly than terrorism - Muslim, Christian, atheist, or otherwise.
... "Girlfriend Construction Set"??
Forget PoP, try that!
comment 2 on this site is
"oh but a white tried to blow up an NAACP office!!!"
way to provide an immediate "counterexample", you sack of shit
Is it my fault that the bomber in question is mechanically inept? I bet, when they track him down, they find he lives in a house where the toilets stopped working long ago so they use buckets.
Wow, yeah, it's totally on equal footing with Islam. Here's their most recent contributions to peace:
2015.01.08 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A Sunni suicide bomber wades into a Shiite mosque and slaughters at least eight worshippers.
2015.01.07 (Zhari, Afghanistan) - Taliban bombers take out two children gathering firewood.
2015.01.07 (Baghlan, Afghanistan) - Six road workers are machine-gunned point-blank by Religion of Peace gunmen.
2015.01.07 (Sanaa, Yemen) - A al-Qaeda suicide bus bomber scatters body parts and snuffs out thirty-seven lives at a college.
2015.01.06 (Nazimabad, Pakistan) - Two Shiite brothers are murdered in their shop by Sipah-e-Sahaba.
2015.01.06 (al-Jubba, Iraq) - A suicide attack on a mosque and the ensuing clash leave two dozen dead.
Fuck your false equivalency.
Fuck you right back for pinning it on "Islam" itself as if Islam is some sort of evil spirit that possesses a person and drives them to commit acts of evil. Religious extremists can be found in any faith -- hell, there are even atheist extremists (such as Hitchens and his support for the Iraq War) -- and making like Islam is somehow uniquely dangerous is straight-up bigotry.
It does seem pointless to bring up some failed non-Islamic terrorist attack as a comparison. It's not so much "oh those Muslims" as it is muslim extremists being exponentially more effective, ambitious, and numerous than their non-Muslim counterparts. You can debate the reasons for that, and it doesn't by any means have to indict Islam or absolve Christianity or whatever, but a failed attack strikes me as a silly thing to bring up in this context.
It's also total bullshit that nobody cares about right wing terrorism. That survivalist who killed one cop in Pennsylvania was generating front page headlines for weeks. This NAACP bomb kills 12 people, it's front page news on par Charlie Hebdo.
"but a failed attack strikes me as a silly thing to bring up in this context"
It's significant if the point is (and it is) that being a murderous asshole is not the sole province of Muslims, which is the conclusion some folks are all too eager to jump to.
"muslim extremists being exponentially more effective, ambitious, and numerous than their non-Muslim counterparts"
I'll give the Paris terrorists points for being more ambitious and effective; using guns means sticking around until the job is done and having less of a chance of getting away with it. But there were only two gunmen in Paris versus the lone bomber in Colorado Springs, so the numbers weren't so far off.
There is also the apples-to-oranges difference that, in the US, the religious extremists have huge institutions giving them at least partial support, and they can accomplish more at the ballot box than with guns or bombs. Why take the risk of intimidating black voters when the GOP can just pass voter ID laws that our current Supreme Court will rubber stamp?
And yes, I'm treating right-wing American Christianity as if it's inextricably linked with racism, because it is. Never ever forget that the rise of the Religious Right was not about abortion, but about racial segregation.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2013/01/23/roe-v-wade -backlash-myth-clouds-real-history-of-states-rights-and-segregated -schools/
Bort that turned out to be a firecracker at a barber shop, not the NCAAP. Bet you're feeling silly now.
Or, do you still equate a firecracker at a barber shop to be equivalent to the murderous Muslims kililng people in every country they visit?
You're perfectly right Enjoy except:
1) According to news reports, "the device was a pipe bomb and flare rigged to ignite the gas can". Not a "firecracker"; whoever told you that, they're lying to you. And they don't have any fundamental problem with killing blacks. You're better people than that, Enjoy.
2) Even without the gas can igniting, the explosion was still powerful enough to knock things off the wall in the NAACP office.
3) Take a look at the map of the building where both the NAACP office and the barber shop were; the NAACP side of the building is very visible to traffic on all three sides. If you want to set up an improvised device without being seen, it will have to be on the alley side (i.e. the barbershop side).
Here, see for yourself. NAACP is on the left, barber shop is on the right:
|The Mothership |
No, this doesn't belong here. I didn't need that this morning. Valid ID grab failed in 5....4....
I'm kinda of the same opinion.*
*though I think disturbing imagery of historical interest, where there is purported ambiguity according to The Man, is fine as long as it's revealing something or disputing the common narrative.
There is no ambiguity in this story.
Jet Bin Fever
I agree, but at the same time something like this is really worth bringing up and talking about here. It's newsworthy and important, not just like a faces of death video of someone crashing their car or something like that.
You're both right of course, but I wasn't happy to see a man shot in the face over my omelet. Kind of set me off my morning eggs.
Liveleak; The Diet.
The religion of peace, being peaceful as always.
"Christian" America doesn't have to resort to these tactics when it can launch drone strikes at the push of a button.
We're hardly a nation of peace, ourselves, and so much of our leaders' motivations stem from beliefs just as nonsensical as any Imam's.
Seriously? Where is the fucking blood from an ak-47 point blank range to his head? There should be an exploded head and a pool of blood. Its all bullshit.
Whoah! We've got one! We've got a conspiratard here at POETV! I'm so excited!
The illuminati really need to stop hiring these doofuses for their "stage shows" and need to contact YOU. You know how to get shit done realistically.
eh..... Species' same question phrased differently would have been a fair one
Here, let me try:
"I call fake. There is clearly not enough blood and brain matter to fap to."
Did I do it right?
Not enough people are mocking this enough.
Seriously. If it were about Chris-Chan or furries, there would be 1,000 comments already.
it depends on the bullet used, and probably other shit too.
(apparently AK rounds tend to resist fragmentation at close range. wiki that shit)
The question would not be a fair question?
"I don't know much about ballistics, but it seems to me that multiple gunshots should cause a pool of blood, and maybe explode a skull, shouldn't it?"
That's not a fair question?
You don't want it to be a question because it's too grim. That's understandable.
Skulls tend not to explode. Even people who shoot themselves in the head with a 12 gauge shotgun have surprisingly intact skulls.
Blood is not quicksilver, give it a few fucking seconds and yes, it will form a pool of blood. Jesus, are you in a hurry or something?
That's not even remotely similar to the original question and you know it. OP does not claim or even suggest ignorance. In fact, by closing with "it's all bullshit", they're doing the exact opposite.
The intent of OP's question was to suggest that this is fake. They don't actually care about the number of gunshots (there appears to be one to the head) or where the blood is (there is either blood or a shadow around his head -- video quality is fairly shitty and the camera moves with the gunmen rather than dwell on the dead body) or why their head didn't explode (real life is not a video game). So the questions are disingenuous to begin with.
There's a video of a man being murdered here. A question doesn't have the ability to be too grim, in comparison. It's just offensive and laughable and should be called out as such. I've seen -- in person -- the results of a point-blank gunshot to the head. Their head was in tact. Don't tell me about "too grim". Get over yourself.
"Why is no one else seeing this: Why does he plummet like a rock if his upper atmosphere container is floating in zero gravity?" -- Species, on the Felix Baumgardner balloon freefall video. You could give him the benefit of the doubt of simply being painfully ignorant of science for that (and I did!), but this is clearly a user who assumes a conspiracy for everything.
Or a troll, I guess. Either way, he sucks dicks for nickels in the YMCA locker room.
Species being a crank (good detective work there) isn't the same as the "why no blood" question. Not everyone was born knowing a bunch of forensics. Sheesh.
A) Pretty sure there is blood. Because a man was shot in the head. B) Context is important. Context is fully capable of making two similar looking questions entirely different.
|Miss Henson's 6th grade class |
It turns out the cop was a Muslim, too.
Yeah, but apparently the Qu'ran has that covered too - the muslim killed was working for the "takfir" state, and part of the Great Satan, so the killers are pardoned by Allah. Wonderful religion.
My favorite part of the bible is where it says it's better to put conquered women to the sword rather than risk your soldiers being tainted by heathen vagina. Wonderful religion.
You do realize I'm not christian, right Nominal? I'm an agnostic atheist.
The way you responded almost seemed like a butthurt anti-christian assuming that my OP was from a christian perspective. If you're just stating the obvious about religion in general, however, I wholeheartedly agree.
The point is that pointing out what the actual religious text justifies and going "AH HA! SEE?" is meaningless because you can find brutal shit in all of them.
Robot, you're either an idiot or a FOX news chat bot, an actual robot! Deuteronomy 20, you mouthbreathing motherfucker. If you don't think Christians use the good book to justify atrocious political actions, then it's time to take off the blindfold. Developed world Chrisitans have the resources and political clout to impose their wishes by other means. Witness the constant string of FOX news commentators and their thinly veiled insinuations that all dissenters of traditional Christian values should be silenced or shot. Witness the teachings of the church that fully justify and inspire killers to shoot up and bomb clinics. Now, place those people into a Road Warrior society and see how long before they start acting exactly like your Muslim examples.
You're honestly saying that terrorism isn't a result of disenfranchisement or broken down societies of the region and the assholes looking to fill the power vacuum; but rather the particular wording of the magical spells inscribed in their 1500 year old books.
That's as idiotic as blaming all assassinations on fans of Martin Scorcese movies. That is how stupid you are.
dude, Christians are never violent because jebus tells them to never be violent.
Also there are the anti-abortion murders and bombings
If anything you could argue that Christians are more prone to terrorism because so many Christian terrorists are from well-off countries with religious freedoms, but their cult keeps telling them they're repressed.
|Rodents of Unusual Size |
*looks at the horrific headline, goes to Yahoo, sees what's trending now: Shia LaBouef, Melissa Gilbert, Jerry Lewis, gets less excited when realizing none of those people were involved*
|Void 71 |
Islam is the Chris-Chan of the Abrahamic religions. It's the self-centered, emotionally stunted younger brother that craves constant attention. Just as Chris wages war against Sega for drawing Sonic wrong, Muslims kill cartoonists who draw Muhammad, period.
Yeah, that's right, you're an idiot.
Rodents of Unusual Size
I have about as much respect for Muhammad as I do Chris and neither of them gave the world anything useful.
Sorry Void71. I couldn't hear you over the "religious freedom" laws being passed by Republicans so it's legal to discriminate against gays, complaining about The War on Christmas, and attempting to outlaw science and critical thinking.
I dunno, both are driven by very infantile, self-serving motivations.
Christianity is creepy in a more sophisticated way than Islam. Its method of conversion is kind of like date rape. It tries to coerce you into the flock gradually. It'll only slip something into your drink if it knows you really want it but are afraid to commit. Unlike Islam, it left the whole burning-at-the-stake thing behind a couple centuries ago because it realized that it wasn't good for its image.
Judaism is the opposite of Islam and Christianity in that it has no interest in conversion. It's inherently exclusionary, sort of like a country in the middle east that built walls and guard towers around itself.
Abrahamic religion in general is the pits, but Islam is still partying like it's 699. It's a religion that should be relegated to the desert where it came from since it has proven itself to be incompatible with western civilization.
I'd sterilize all ya'll invisible wizard worshipers if I could.
as much as radical muslims are scary, radical Christians and jews do a lot more damage to general society and Palestine.
To be fair, most Islamic countries have a history of colonialism by Western Christian nations, and they propped up a LOT of tin-pot dictators that fucked over their populaces while corporations made off with their natural resources. Spoiler: that's still going on right now.
It's no wonder that they radicalized, don't you think? There was no money or no interest in providing much for the lower classes in said countries, religious extremists stepped in and fanned the flames. It's an easy way to power if you want a flock who'll do whatever you say. That even happens in Western countries, and I fear it'll happen with radical Christians in America if the GOP keeps helping the 1% fuck everyone over.
"But Christians aren't as bad!" Well, if the right wingers manage to actually convince them they're oppressed and basically living under occupation (which a lot of Islamic countries basically are) and pull more of their "faith based initiatives" fuckery, we'll see...
I like to think of Islam as Mormonism with a lot more explosions. And a lot more people quick to tell you those explosions are not representative of the people who performed them.
We bombed the shit out of Vietnam, we propped up all kinds of tinpot dictators in Central and South America, did some bad things in the Philippines way back when. We're more or less cool with all of them.
It's almost as if we...stopped(!) fucking with all those countries you mentioned a long time ago.
Except the Philippines. There's a ton of nasty shit going on there that we never here about. Extremism and terrorism a plenty. Plus good old genocide sprees by the military in the name of safeguarding American oil companies.
|Spaceman Africa |
Charlie Hebdo was some rag publication whose proclamation of "satire" was debatable but even their dumb comics didn't justify this.
yeah- and you don't exactly have to scour the Muslim world for examples of their shitty 'satire' either, where there's even less of a joke.
It is mindblowing to me that in the midst of this act of murder and what has been going on in the Mideast with regard to ISIS, people will STILL act as apologists for what Muslim radicalization has done across the globe and the fact that it actively fights for exception from both criticism and the legal consequences of its actions (for example, the Jyllands Posten cartoons disaster which was actively encouraged by at least a dozen major Islamic figures around the globe). I said this on a video a few months ago:
"As it stands, we still live in a world where people who criticize or mock Islam pay a public price for it in a way that people who mock most other religions do not. This imbalance apparently doesn't concern people who, despite not being religious themselves, feel totally compelled to help extremists tighten their grip around free speech and the idea of open forum."
...and I predictably got dogpiled for it. The more and more people keep this bullshit up of trying to claim that Islam is no different than other religions in regard to it's danger to society, the further down this fucking hole we're going.
You have my permission, my blessing, even my encouragement to say whatever vile things you want to about Muslim extremists. Just be very careful to also acknowledge that you're speaking specifically about extremists, and we'll be fine.
This is very much like I don't mind if you talk about black criminals and black crime, provided you are very clear that you are not saying that all blacks are criminals or that blackness predisposes a person to criminal activity.
Yes, I am saying that lumping all Muslims together is every bit as bigoted and fucked as lumping all blacks together. You can't even say that it's being equally terrible to all groups, because somehow, when there is a white criminal or a Christian terrorist, nobody jumps to the conclusion that they are representative of all whites/Christians. It's something that doesn't even require a disclaimer because nobody was even thinking it. But when it's blacks or Muslims, it's a very different story.
I'd argue otherwise...
If you want to piss of radical (insert religion/movement/political ideal), then go right ahead. But do it during your personal time. Also refuse to accept any police protection and don't hire body guards.
It's all cool and righteous of you're willing to die for what you believe, but when you put unrelated people in danger for your personal beliefs, that makes you a dick.
race is not the same as religion
Binro the Heretic
Turning non-Muslims against Muslims is part of the extremists' big plan.
"Oh, those infidels hate you? Well, come to us! We'll accept you. We'll help you make them pay for all the mean things they said and did to you."
If you push Muslims away, you're helping the terrorist recruitment drive.
But bigotry is the same in either case. "There are some ______ who are violent but the great majority simply want to do well for themselves and their families without hurting anyone"; that sentence works just as well whether we're talking about blacks or Muslims.
"Also refuse to accept any police protection and don't hire body guards."
The police are a government agency and it's part of their job to protect citizens' free speech from outside threats of physical violence.
Bodyguards are free to make their own choices about their choice of employment and can accept or reject whatever risk they want. Even if you don't buy the police thing, it's idiotic to declare it morally wrong to hire bodyguards to protect you against someone threatening you over their own completely arbitrary beliefs.
There are actual death threats and murders because of books an cartoons. That is ideological, not economic. That is a particular value system that is actually the case.
It is not 0.001% of Muslims who think that making fun of Mohammed should be met with violence, or any other number of abhorrent beliefs. The percentage is greater.
It is not the same percentage as Christians or Buddhists. It is higher. You can't decide "it's all the same" a priori and then define it into being the way you want it to be.
Multiculturalism has a fucking stupid side.
If everybody was exactly the same regardless of ideology, then you wouldn't have massive trends that come and change everyone's behavior, as in the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge, cults, etc etc.
Race is not the same as religion.
No, there's a definite hypocrisy about telling everyone that you're willing/'not afraid' to die for your beliefs and then paying or demanding other people die to protect your life.
Acting like a martyr while you think you're safe is just self-promotional boasting.
I am willing to post anonymously on a backwater of the internet for my beliefs.
"Race is not the same as religion."
You've said that twice now, and the point you're trying to make remains a load of horseshit.
What you are implying is that there are inherent defects that come with being a Muslim, but unlike any inherent defects that come with being black, at least Muslims can change it. The bigotry lies in the starting assumption that there is anything inherently wrong with being a Muslim.
Try talking to some Muslims in real life; if you live near any major cities, it won't be hard to find some. You will quickly discover that they are recognizable as human beings, rather than meat-robots bent on killing anything they can't enslave. All while practicing Islam!
"Try talking to...."
I have. I have Muslim friends that I see weekly. We talk about this shit every now and then. Since I'm in a blue-state in the USA, they are all either reformist types, or lax-casual.
Religion is a belief system, thus open for critique, I think......?
I don't give a fuck if it's also cultural. That doesn't give it a free pass.
Furthermore, though they're all crappy, they're not all equally crappy. The typical Islamic society, as actually practiced right now, is a piece of shit, all day, every day. It makes any gripes you want to make about American/Western injustice and intolerance look like a motherfucking joke.
Pick a fucking thing you'd like to say about the West and compare it to how it works in the Muslim world.
The shit you can go to jail for
The shit that will get you killed
What they teach in school about other cultures
How they treat migrants
on and on and on
It's fucking insane and fuck you. Fuck your first comment.
"not ALL men" etc.
"The typical Islamic society, as actually practiced right now, is a piece of shit, all day, every day."
I have no problem with saying that, or criticizing specific examples of Islam or Muslims. I just draw the line at making the leap that Islam itself is the problem, because at that point you're pretty much saying that all Muslims are inherently damaged.
And I still say your "race is not religion" line implies a vast amount of horseshit.
Your faith in your god is so steadfast, so certain, so absolute, that in order to prove you love him you need to kill people who doubt his existence.
Because your god is niminy-piminy, y'see.
Here's the guy we blame if terrorists bomb the PoETV servers.
Five stars for this thread setting the bar for astonishingly dumb opinions stated as factual, scholarly discourse
way to bravely stick out your neck and offer your opinion
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