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Desc:With the happy and the new year and the
Tags:Bill Cosby, pudding, rape, meet the new coke same as the old coke
Submitted:infinite zest
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Comment count is 36
Rodents of Unusual Size
Well I for one am shocked.
I doubt much will come of this. It seems like a way for Andrea Constand to simply get a bunch of women in court to tell their stories, which is a clever and brutal thing to do to Cosby, but I don't anything criminal will come down on him. The case relies on very little evidence, unfortunately, and is mostly based around a circumstantial accusation rooted in things that Cosby has said or admitted to in past depositions about his sexual conduct.
This is not a critique of Constand, understand, but just confronting the ugly reality that Cosby has gotten away with all of this for decades. Come January 14th, though, it will be very, very interesting to see exactly what winds up being said in court because I don't think this time Cosby can finagle the legal stuff to get the information sealed.
That guy
fiNAgle with the jism and the jazzin'

You can be pretty sure CAMEEEEEELEEEEE won't like it much

*Allegedly* gotten away with. He should be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and the truly ugly reality here is that this basic principle of jurisprudence rarely applies anymore.

If nothing comes of it, nothing comes of it. If something does, it does. And at this point, it's not like Mr Cosby won't suffer. Even in the "worst case scenario" (if he really did commit these crimes, yet gets acquitted on all charges), Mr Cosby will have still received a punishment - one that is arguably far harsher than whatever "legal" punishment the courts might have given him. Mr Cosby's been tried and convicted in the "court" of public opinion already; he won't be able to find a job, and the vast majority of Americans despise him. His life is effectively over, his legacy is ruined, and that won't change regardless of whether he did or didn't do it, regardless of whether he is or isn't found guilty.

"He should be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and the truly ugly reality here is that this basic principle of jurisprudence rarely applies anymore."

Over fifty women have come forward. Fifty. How do you even explain that if the charges aren't true? Even if 90% of them are liars (because women amirite?), that still leaves five or six women that Cosby raped ... more than enough to let him enter his initials on the "Serial Rapist" high score screen.

Yes Cosby deserves his day in court to decide what formal punishments he deserves, but since I have no power to fine or imprison Cosby, I feel no particular obligation to be obtuse about this. The only way all these women could be lying is if they're part of a grand conspiracy against him, and so far nobody's been able to find a hint of any such thing. (Plenty of evidence of conspiracies to protect him, though.)

Here, have some "What Everybody Knows":


>> "How do you even explain that if the charges aren't true?"

*I* can't, and fortunately, *I* don't have to. It's not up to me to "prove" his innocence, just as it's not up to me to decide his guilt.

As I've said many times before, I believe Cosby did it. I think the evidence, as presented to me by an explicitly hostile news media, more than speaks for itself. However, I am not a member of a jury. I do not know all the facts about his case, and most importantly, I have NEVER been exposed to counter-arguments presented by a defense attorney. I have literally only ever heard one side of the story, so it should not be a surprise to anyone that I, like you, am "convinced" of his guilt.

It is not being "obtuse" to be cognizant of my own bias, to ask that we use language accurately and fairly, or to stand up for a fundamental legal principle which modern society is fond of forgetting; a principle whose continued, sober observance, is far more important than the results of any one case.

"It is not being "obtuse" to be cognizant of my own bias, to ask that we use language accurately and fairly, or to stand up for a fundamental legal principle which modern society is fond of forgetting; a principle whose continued, sober observance, is far more important than the results of any one case."

Uh, in this case, it pretty much is. Your job as a juror would require you to operate off a different standard, but there's really no way Cosby isn't monstrously guilty.

And if there were a conspiracy to bring Cosby down, you'd better believe his legal team would have launched a very public counter-strike long ago.

At any rate, Mr Bort, my primary intention above was not to stand up for the presumption of innocence, but rather to point out that Mr Cosby will be, and indeed, is right now at this very moment, being punished. There is no way he can "get away with this", regardless of whether he actually committed any rapes in the first place; Cosby is already suffering more at the hands of a globalized Angry Mob, than he would languishing quietly in a celebrity-grade prison cell.

Whether this aspect of the modern system is "good" or "bad", I'll leave the judging of that up to you.

>> //"It is not being "obtuse" to be cognizant of my own bias{1}, to ask that we use language accurately and fairly{2}, or to stand up for a fundamental legal principle{3}"//
>> Uh, in this case, it pretty much is. Your job as a juror would require you to operate off a different standard

We can't operate at a higher standard, of our own free will? Says who? You and I can think critically, regardless of whether we are in a juror's box or not //points {1}&{2}// - the only real difference is that jurors are forced by law to think fairly and critically, while at other times, rational thinking has to be a conscious choice.

Furthermore, regardless of whether we are on a jury or not, it most certainly IS our duty to hold ourselves to the observance of the presumption of innocence //point {3}//. It's a basic tenet of Western jurisprudence, and in a very real way is what ultimately stands between the working class and outright tyranny, what makes democracy possible and any form of social hierarchy tolerable. Living in a free society imposes certain obligations upon us, and one of these obligations is understanding our rights, and sticking up for them whenever they are being threatened or undermined.

"Cosby is already suffering more at the hands of a globalized Angry Mob"

His reputation has taken a hit but he still has his fans, and he is no doubt still surrounded by a circle of supporters and hangers-on. Not so sure he's "suffering" at all.

Of course he'll have supporters. *I've* never seen one (perhaps you can provide some links?), but even criminals as scuzzy as Charles Manson, Luka Magnotta, and Hitler himself are able to get *a few* weirdos on their side.

I guess the question here is whether being the most hated man in America, a celebrity actor who will never be able to work again and whose image is now forever associated with rape, is enough to, on the balance, counteract the benefits of still having a wife and three or four sycophantic fans.

Thank goodness he has all those rape memories to keep him warm at night in the face of such a cruel blow to his reputation.

I've read comments on places where people defend him, saying those women knew what they were in for when he invited them over. Stupid rape culture shit like that.

I've hated Cosby before it was cool, due to him becoming Uncle Ruckus. He pretty much allowed himself to become a voice for racist whites, who would try to hide their racism by hiding it behind Bill Cosby's quotes. Well Mr. Cosby, sagging pants and naming your daughter "Shenika" kinda pales in comparisson to your crimes. Fall into shame and obscurity.

Here's why I don't give Cosby the benefit of the doubt that he's innocent: the rumors of him raping women go WAY back, it's just that most people never paid attention to it. He was also pretty much established as a womanizer. It doesn't really take a leap in logic to assume that a person who sort of earns that reputation and keeps it for decades and then winds up accused by dozens of women that he's a rapist really is a truly awful person.

am I a terrible person for hating Cosby for his staunch no naughty language stance?

Shoebox Joe
-If that's the only reason, then yes.
-considering your posts how you choose what from 'dirty comics' material as support, it is a huge sign pointing towards yes
-You're a giant douche

I highly doubt caring about and helping people is a bigger motivator for you than getting to feel righteous about being an asshole.

Shoebox Joe
And I highly doubt that your objective cynicism has gone farther than existential altruism.

That guy
What is happening here?

Shoebox Joe
Don't mind us, just trading hand-jobs

If I was his legal counsel first thing I'd do is tell him to cool it with the somnophiliac-ish sweaters and lose the sleepy expression.
Now when do we talk about the allegations against Louis CK?

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/05/louis-ck-will-never-g et-cosbyd/
I've had a hard time appreciating Louis CK ever since I heard about this. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to say. (I have also appreciated Jen Kirkman for a long time and I wonder if she's going to be driven out of the business.)

If all Louis CK did was expose himself to a number of women, it's the sort of thing where I feel he owes (at a minimum) an apology and landing them some crazy lucrative gigs at a casino (Patton Oswalt reports that like an hour of work at a casino is enough to pay for a year of his daughter's college). That would be the quietest, everybody-wins-est outcome. But that all depends primarily on Louis CK understanding that he (allegedly) treated women in indefensible fashion and being truly contrite. And of course it depends upon what actually happened (was it just exposing himself, was there more?) and what the women in question would consider fair outcomes.

Jen Kirkman was the person who did the "name without naming" of an incident, which she has later quantified: http://starcasm.net/archives/326273

That guy
I'm like one degree removed from this story, but after reading the two links, I don't know anything anybody else doesn't know. I know it's above a 1% chance of being true, but that's about all I know. It's going to kill me if it's true, I really like the guy as a stand up and filmmaker. (although I *wholly* agree with the hoodedutilitarian comments about his 'weird brand of sanctimony' and his edgy jokes sometimes not having an interesting idea behind them)

Kirkman backpedaled in that link from snothouse. I tried to get to the bottom of the "multiple" accusations, but I couldn't find anything not originating from Kirkman. (I do believe her about the general claim that male comics sleaze on female comics past the point of just single guys hitting on single girls.) So all things considered, the tough part about the story is that I think I see how it works if it's basically true, or if it's basically bullshit. I think it's going to be a 'he said she said' that never gets resolved. And in a way I find that more annoying than anything. I want the guy to be a clear villain or clearly not.

That guy
Well, ok this article makes it sound worse than I just hoped it was, but still nothing concrete:
http://defamer.gawker.com/louis-c-k-will-call-you-up-to-talk-a bout-his-alleged-s-1687820755

lol prison rape
Hi Master Ashtar, Happy New Year. What are your thoughts on Bill Cosby?

That guy
Why did you one-star this? IZ didn't give a big up to prison rape here.

ToMo does; the last joke.

That guy
My bad, I didn't hear that last bit,
But I don't see that joke condoning it, necessarily.

Yeah, for the last joke. He should go to jail, not be raped in jail. Prison rape as a joke and as a way we like to imagine bad people are punished needs to die.

EH: Happy new year! I think he's a serial rapist. He is entitled to presumption of innocence in a court of law, but the public is not held him to a similar standard in determining their opinion of him, especially in light of the massive weight of evidence against him.

That guy
ashtar, yes I agree with you, and I don't think that joke is a skillful one.
But there's a difference between is and ought. That joke doesn't necessarily say "he ought to be raped in prison", just that he might. The joke-teller may have meant 'ought to be' but we don't really know. I'm not in a race to judge that joke as having bad taste and the wrong target. Grim irony is still grim irony, even if you think prisons should be reformed.

This happened like 5 minutes from me. The whole area was a zoo.
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