William Burns
So, your brilliant plan for dealing with the insurance crisis is "let's just none of us get sick!"

Cena_mark
That's not my plan. I just know that no plan is better than Pelosi's 2000 page monstrosity. And I do have a plan, but the Dems won't like it because it gives power to the people and not government.
1. Allow people to buy health insurance across state lines.

2. Eliminate mandates from health insurance policies.

3. Allow employees to actually own the policies their employers pay for ... which would mean they could take those policies with them.

4. Allow people to form groups to buy large group policies.

Smellvin
Agreeing with PoETV's resident troll makes me sad, but this is the rough equivalent of a Republican reading a list of people who had died in Democratic districts as a reason to vote for the Iraq War bill back in 2002.

An appeal to emotions is an appeal to emotions.

splatterbabble
I was uninsured for most of my life and I am now suffering from issues that I could have corrected if I had had insurance or the $25,000 needed for the physical therapy. In the next ten years I'll probably lose the lower half of my left leg because of degenerative bone, cartilage, and nerve issues caused from a rock climbing accident in 1997. I'm very thankful that it was just my leg and not my lungs, or liver, or heart.

If I would have had insurance to cover the surgeries I needed, I wouldn't have had to sacrifice college or starting a family to pay back the hospital bills for ten years. I also would have had my therapy covered and I would have had full use of my ankle, versus the partial use I have now.

I was an adult at the time of my injury, so my parents did not have me insured and could not afford to help me with my injury because they were battling their own problems stemming from a couple decades of military service each.

William Burns
Soo...

1. Allow insurance companies to further consolidate on a national level.

2. Deregulate some more!

3. ???!

4. Allow people to buy group policies (as long as it's not from the government!) (unless it's one of the programs that old people like!)

William Burns
To Smellvin: Our side is allowed to appeal to emotions, too. We've already won the minds, now let's win the hearts.

simon666
Smellvin, I think you're right when you point out the fallacy of appealing to emotion, however, a strictly logical discourse does not adequately address the issue of health reform, something that is necessarily a moral issue and therefore not easily divorced from emotion. There are the logical reasons we should reform heath care/insurance: it's too expensive, often it doesn't work the way it "should," it will negatively effect the economy and national security if left how it is, etc. But there is another reason why it should enact reform, the current health system, by virtue of negligence, kills people and this is ethically wrong. Reading the projected number of people who will die underscores this point.

fatatty
This isn't a college debate class, this is American politics. Logical fallacies don't matter; what matters is getting attention and votes. Obama won the election not on his appeals to logic but because of his emotional appeals to the American people.

People do actually die because of lack of health coverage, despite Cena Mark not dying from it. According to a Harvard Medical School study 45,000 people a year die from lack of coverage. Their families were probably pretty emotional about that loss, so it seems fair to make that point known by appealing to emotions when you have the data to back you up.

Kerry chose logic over emotion in his campaign, how'd that work out for him?

Cena_mark
Do you libs even know what's in the Pelosi bill? Its about 2000 pages of who knows what. The dems aren't even going to read it. You call that intelligence?

simon666
Logical fallacy, Cena, the fallacy of ignorance... "who knows what," ie: I don't know what's in the bill therefore it must be bad. College debate score: Simon 2, Cena 0

Chancho
This is trolling done right! Well played Cena_mark.

Cena_mark
Fuck your college debate. In the real world nobody cares about what guys in togas said thousands of years ago. I know the Pelosi bill is bad because anything like that coming from the government is bound to be bad.
Cena_mark 1000000 Simon666 0 and is gay.

Keefu
"In the real world nobody cares about what guys in togas said thousands of years ago."

another sick burn on philosophy from noted intellectual cena_mark of the "ethos, pathos, and 'mythos' " school

simon666
"Anything coming from the government must be bad."

And you were doing so well up until that point. You lost me here, too obvious. Here try again. Maybe a qualifier, like "...because the bureaucracy can never do anything right."

HoboTech
You're still here?

simon666
Take notes from Cena on this one.

baleen

I think Viator is commenting more on the uselessness of this speech in the grand scheme of things than the actual passage of the bill.

Toenails
One-star in response to your comment.

Not in the sense that I agree with you, just that your comment absolutely sucks at trolling the denizens of poeTV.

In case you believe that I'm playing into your hands by 1-starring this video, keep in mind that I'm actually siding with Cena_Mark (cause he's the good troll that gets many responses and you aren't) and the video is actually quite boring.

Keefu
cena_mark isn't a troll, he's legitimately stupid and worthless with no intellectual curiosity at all

Keefu
also viator is probably talking about how Grayson is a shitty double-dealing, lying motherfucker

Toenails
Goddammit Keefu.

Stop curmudging it up all the damn time.

Rodents of Unusual Size
But her kill count was way higher than his. Does she win anything?