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Desc:Warning: the sound effects are spoilers
Category:General Station, Classic TV Clips
Tags:Game of Thrones, Red Wedding
Submitted:Exegesis_Saves
Date:06/04/13
Views:1230
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Comment count is 49
Bort
2:07 - Rory Williams is appalled by what passes for swordsmanship on HBO.
gorch
Spoilers for a book that came out 13 years ago.

I seriously don't understand how people can be nerdy enough to get this invested in a SF/Fantasy TV show, but not be nerdy enough to read the source material. How does that work? "I am emotionally invested in the story and the characters, but reading is for losers."
Hooker
It really is weird. I'm mildly interested in the show at best and think the books are pretty lousy, but I've nevertheless read all the books (I read the first two long before there was a series, then when the series came out, I figured, "what's 3000 more pages of crap in the scheme of things?" and polished them off). The people who swear by the show but adamantly refuse to read the books are mystifying. If you like the narrative, why not, at the very least, get the books out of the library for free to continue seeing what happens? Is the appeal of not having to read so strong that you're willing to wait a year for something you're _this_ emotionally invested in?

Nikon
HBO left that out of the previews Even for people who knew about the event or had it spoiled, or for those expecting shit to get real in episode 9 (as it often does on this show) that was pretty fucking brutal.

As far as not reading the books, there are some people who want to experience the television show without knowing what's going to happen next. I do understand where you are coming from, though. I regularly tell people to read VNs or other media for some nerdy subject and am then asked if there's an tv show they could watch instead.

Nikon
> Is the appeal of not having to read so strong that you're willing to wait a year for something you're _this_ emotionally invested in?

Maybe for them, it's like a giganimous christmas present. The anticipation is part of the fun.

Sorry for the dropped period above.

HarrietTubmanPI
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

What's funny to me is that people are complaining about the TV show being so brutal - when in my opinion what happened in the books was FAR more brutal and violent. If the scene that was in the book at the end of the Red Wedding (including Robb Stark with his direwolf sewn on his neck) was shown on TV, how would people have reacted then?

RockBolt
For reading I like nonfiction. For something that exists in a highly polished high budget well acted visual form, I'd rather watch it that way without 1) knowing everything that is going to happen ahead of time and therefore 2) being disappointed whiny asshole when it is inevitably different that the source material. Fuck you.

Gmork
How about "the show started and I havent read book 1, so im not going to play catch-up while the show is still in fucking production and new seasons are being made"

Satisfied?

I sat through all ten books of the Sword of Truth and it didn't make the goddamned legend of the seeker show any better.

fermun
The show is way better than the books. The author works with the show and has gotten a second chance to shuffle around the events to make a tighter story while keeping the same overall plot. I've read the books, but I can easily see how people don't want to push their way through 5000 pages of mediocre writing to get a story with less focus and without the most handsome Jaime Lannister. That guy is so handsome.

Xenocide
What's funnier to me is people who wander the internet bragging endlessly about having read the books, as if reading a book is a fucking accomplishment you deserve acclaim for.

Anyway, I didn't read the second and third books because George RR Martin just isn't that great a writer, the Ice and Fire series is kind of convoluted and drawn out, and the show wisely strips out a lot of the detritus padding out the novels, resulting in a more streamlined, less plodding story. I am just invested enough to devote 50 minutes a week, ten weeks a year, to this thing, and even that's mainly because I have a bunch of friends who are into the show and it's fun to get together on Sundays.

A better question would be why anyone who read the books would bother watching the show. "Oh boy, time for another episode of the show where I know everything that's going to happen for the next three seasons! This is a good use of my time!"

Old_Zircon
I'd go farther and say it's utterly mystifying to me that anyone would want to see a movie or TV show based on a book WITHOUT reading the book first. It almost always messes up the book, even if the movie is good too (like Deliverance; great movie, world class novel; seeing the movie first definitely took a lot away from reading the novel, especially because of Burt Reynolds, whose performance completely changed the Lewis character).

Old_Zircon
I can't imagine why anyone would have anywhere near this strong a reaction to anything on TV ever, also.

Old_Zircon
The man and women on the right end of the couch at 1:08-1:19 are great.

sosage
"Maybe for them, it's like a giganimous christmas present. The anticipation is part of the fun. "

I am one of those people. I actually avoid spoilers (except this one, which I had to look up what the hubbub was about) and wait for the season to end, then digest it all in one gigantic 8-10 hour gorge. I also have no time or interest to read the books, mostly because I have a pile of books I need to get through already. I realize that makes me look like a mouth breathing philistine to some people...but wtf ever. Everything entertaining does not have to become a pretentious original media/version consumption contest.

chumbucket
Zircon's comment 3rd above this: agreement stars.

Xenocide
Zircon: For me, it's usually one or the other. Movies based on books are usually redundant and have nothing new to them, so if the book is good, I'll just read that. Occasionally you'll find a book-based film with something new or interesting to say that the book didn't touch upon (A Clockwork Orange and Blade Runner come to mind) but this is increasingly more rare these days.

Game of Thrones is an exception, as the TV show is actually much better than the books despite not really going anywhere new. Instead it improves on its source by hacking out stuff we didn't need to see and via the judicious application of Peter Dinklage.

That guy
gorch, you know it's pulp, right?

"I don't get people who watch the Penthouse Letters porno without reading the original letters!!"

EvilHomer
Xeno: I couldn't disagree more. I think the books are better than the show, precisely because they include all the stuff we "don't need to see". Having suffered through most of The Wheel of Time, my perspective may be a bit skewed, but GRRM is an excellent writer and he knows how to strike the perfect balance between autisic tedium and getting to the point. The only time I felt the books outstayed their welcome was during Cat's chapters - seriously, fuck Cat. The Red Wedding was worth it just to see Cat get what was coming to her.

chairsforcheap
dude, the direwolf being sewed on Robb's neck is TOTALLY happening next episode, that is going to be awesome.

EvilHomer
He'd better get sewn on. Been waiting to see that for years.

chairsforcheap
^^exactly

CornOnTheCabre
> I'd go farther and say it's utterly mystifying to me that anyone would want to see a movie or TV show based on a book WITHOUT reading the book first. It almost always messes up the book, even if the movie is good too.

well yeah, but you could make the exact same argument for the other way around -- reading the book is going to color your opinion of the film no matter what, and eliminate the chance at a truly fresh read.

the automatic presumption that books are somehow more inherently meaningful as a form of expression than film or television is old and busted. there's more history in written word, which has allowed for more nuance, but there's something to be said about the exciting freshness and collaborative element of film and television when it comes to connecting to a narrative.

i watch the show and don't plan on reading the books until the series is over, just because that's how i was introduced to the franchise, and I don't feel like muddying a perfectly serviceable emotional investment just to satisfy some humorless academic hierarchy.

tl,dr: I am emotionally invested in the story and the characters, but reading is for losers

Hooker
It apparently takes Gmork a year to read a book.

SolRo
Can anyone explain the draw of this show? Haven't seen it and it doesn't seem like it's anything special...anything to it besides gory violence and boobies and sex?

Gmork
I read A Clockwork Orange and The Shining both AFTER seeing the movies multiple over the course of years. All before reading a single page.

I read the hannibal lecter series after having seen all the movies as well.

I liked imagining Malcolm McDowell, Jack Nicholson, Anthony Hopkins and so forth being the voices in my head. It added to my experience reading the books.

Sometimes mediocre things can be awesome with a little imagination and interpretation.

Gmork
Hooker what the fuck are you talking about, you can't extrapolate how quickly I went through the books with the provided information!

candyheadrobot
gorch:I used to draw the same comparisons to people who didn't read any of the comic books, but were fans of the movies. Still do to an extent, especially when a pos like Avengers comes out instead of the Ultimates, but it can be understood in the need to be surprised. Granted, I wasn't like these people at all watching this last episode, but had I read it already I wouldn't have been compelled to watch, since the show is directly based on the books. If I knew what was coming, I wouldn't be watching the show at all. The only way something like that wouldn't happen, is something like Waking Dead. I've read the comic since it came out, and think the show is utter shite because they've made it "appropriate" for t.v. and cut out the more interesting dilemmas in the comic. In that way though, a person can read the comics, or watch the show, or both, and still see something they hadn't seen before. Granted everyone is entertained differently, but not knowing in a venue like this, can be good.

SolRo: I'll just preface this by saying I hate tv. It takes much more investment to keep up with a serial than a film, and most of the time there is no payoff whatsoever, so I don't go out of my way to keep up with most of it, sans GOT. Tbh, the draw of the show for me is just what you described. They're brave enough to spare no expense to remain accurate to the book, bringing an adult nature to an otherwise child-caliber genre. It isn't like True Blood where the sex is at the forefront, or Mad Men who's politics are in an office setting, or Lord of the Rings where you have good vs evil locked in epic battle. Yet you have all of those aspects reflected in GOT, along with writing, performances, and production values that movies don't even get sometimes. Then again that's just me, and I watch anime on occasion.

Sexy Duck Cop
uhhh well maybe they watch the show but don't read the book

it takes longer to read a book than watch a tv show

therefore

Nikon
And the 'an' instead of 'a'.
Bort
Why is the Crash Test Dummies guy singing?
BHWW
Realtime reaction videos are one of the newer banes of Youtube, the latest attention whoring gambit by people who want to be seen OMG LOOK AT ME I'M REACTING TO SOMETHING, see all of the videos of people's totally spontaneous reactions to some idiot videogame based on that Slenderman bullshit, seemingly hundreds of videos of people, many of them alleged adults making idiotic faces and Shaggy from Scooby-Doo noises.
badideasinaction
I'm starting the next big thing - reaction shots from the people gleefully filming reaction videos. Internet gold, baby...

SolRo
We can build a meme Rube Goldberg machine!

Cute Cat Reacts to Dogs Reaction of Camermans Reaction of Some Ass Reacting to Something! LOL Funny!

SolRo
Though the video would just be a cat laying there not giving a shit

EvilHomer
I'm glad to see that poeTV is too cool and jaded to be devastated by the Red Wedding.
chumbucket
I'm glad I don't give a jester's ass about this show.

EvilHomer
I bet you don't even own a TV, huh?

fermun
I'm not jaded, fuck Starks, Lannisters forever.

chumbucket
I do own a TV but as I see it, the last best thing out of HBO was The Wire.

cognitivedissonance
Interestingly, as the characters on screen were being murdered, so was the cultural concept of the Middle Brow.
Old People
Watched it in a room full of 22-year-old girls. One of them had never even seen the show before, and none had read the book. The screams were bloodcurdling.

I have seen a lot of killing in Iraq, but that pregnant-belly-stabbing bit made me gasp and recoil. Bravo.

Also, one thing I noticed in the internet comments and tweets about the show, more people were horrified by murder of the wolf than that of the preggo lady. I honestly think there's a sizable minority of people in this country who value (certain) animal life over human.
EvilHomer
BLESSED LUNA!

That guy
I wonder if the over-gasping for the caged wolf relative to the pregnant woman is just part of human dumbness; but I'm pretty sure it's culturally specific. I think in other times and places, people would look on even a magic, protective wolf as a noble pawn at best, and something to make a rug out of as soon as it's convenient.

badideasinaction
I think it's that more people have lost a pet than a child, unborn or otherwise.

CornOnTheCabre
It was also a pretty ingenious subversion of expectations -- there are countless examples of the exact same scene littered across our cultural output with "evil grownups are doing evil things to the good grownups, while the lowly kid sneaks out back and unleashes sweet, justifiable hell in the form of an otherwise guileless animal/technology." here the destructive force is just killed, while the kid gets to watch.

the most recent, obvious example i can think of is in Iron Man 3, where the token kid gets a moment of triumph to unlock the barn door for the macguffin suit to get back to Tony Stark.

it's a visceral move to kill a dog -- it's a downright demoralizing one to kill an underdog.

StanleyPain
1:15 is my favorite. The chick just all "whatever...."
CornOnTheCabre
i'm pretty sure i noticed her holding back a sadistic smile. GOTTA GET DEM DIGITS

Juice Eggs McKenna
I'm just going to keep refreshing this page until Fabio shows up to explain why this was nowhere near as shocking as the death of Duncan Idaho.
FABIO
^the life of your average Game of Thrones fan

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