They have names and addresses.

history suggests they are right

No idea what that means, but I want to remind everyone that killing innocent people doesn't have to be genocide to be bad.

I think the idea is that the phrase is used by people who also advocate for Israel and Jews to be wiped from the Earth. It's like how red hats and the three-finger OK symbol might literally have two meanings, but he associations/connotations are hard to separate.

So when Zionists say they’ll push the Palestinians into the sea they aren’t advocating genocide?

And just to be clear; fuck Israel and all Zionists, bunch of white nationalists with a different old wizard book

Nah, it's pretty simple: "vote blue no matter who" implies that Democrats are better, somehow, than their fellow capitalist-imperialist party members.

Those very same Democrats are actively and enthusiastically supporting genocide. Overwhelmingly. Yes, there are a few voices of sanity in the blue half of the party, but they are drowned out by those willing to fund the Israeli death machine that has resulted in tens of thousands of murdered civilians.

Therefore, "vote blue no matter who" is a call to support genocide.

Cool story zio-bro

Israel has killed a significant number of the hostages through indiscriminate bombing. The government has also refused prisoner swaps, which a group representing the families has supported. When Netanyahu met with families of hostages, he probably planted fake family members to voice support for invading Gaza.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/16/netanyahu-ac cused-planting-allies-hostage-talks-invasion/

It's kind of gross to bring up hostages to support something that is actively endangering them, has little chance of rescuing them, and is killing a shit ton of equally innocent civilians. It's like tossing grenades into a bank robbery.

Here, I'll turn to ad hominem for a moment to address SolRo: Are you a dumber than a sack of shit? If you had ever bothered to read anything I've said on this site about the Israel Gaza war, you'd have see that I always, unequivocally acknowledged both the abuses of the Palestinian people by a zealous Israeli government; I've also said Bibi is a war monger.

But I've also said and I offer the reminder here that pro-Palestinian advocacy can and does devolve into antisemetic attacks and gives covers to bigots (yes some of them Arab or Palestinian) who want Jews dead for being Jews.

I swear the people on the site are getting dumber and dumber about what certain positions commit them to logically. It's absolutely consistent to not adopt whatever pro-Palestinian anti-Zionist position you want AND still reject and criticize often well-meaning people who are giving a voice and cover to anti-Jewish bigotry. Like how many videos of American Jews getting pushed or hit in the head or otherwise attacked for this to sink in to your heads?

Again, I'll underscore it: It is logically and morally consistent to acknowledge Israeli atrocities and that pro-Palestinian protests have and do devolve into attacking Jewish people who 7000 miles away from the conflict and that this is wrong, blameworthy behavior; it's consistent to absolute criticize Hamas and the Israeli government.

And to Ashtar, it's not morally blameworthy to be concerned with hostages taken by Hamas, especially as an American Jew, no matter what any other group or institution is doing.

But it is morally suspect to think because someone advocates for the return of Israeli hostages that that exhausts their concerns or feelings about what's going on "on the ground" in Israel/Palestine.

Remove "not" from this sentence in the above: "It's absolutely consistent to not adopt whatever pro-Palestinian anti-Zionist position you want"

Here's some evidence to backup my claims that pro-Palestinian protesting seems to give cover to anti-Semites (either directly at protests or in terms of advocating anti-Semitic messages generally):

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/nazis-palestinian- rallies-antisemitism-rcna124300

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1722351053885132812

https://twitter.com/nicolelampert/status/1722612784272453840
https://twitter.com/JewishWonk/status/1722619296063647972

https://twitter.com/portraitinflesh/status/1722579295510384655

https://abc7.com/museum-of-tolerance-protest-fights-hamas/1403 1252/

hey buddy it's over, wrap it up, this shit doesn't work anymore

The ADL is a Zionist hate group and propaganda apparatus

Also I’d like to point out that it’s totally cool and fair to verbally attack American Zionists for their support of apartheid genocide even if they aren’t the ones killing thousands of children, they still support mass child murders and should get shit in their mouths any time they open them.

More people have died and more people have been displaced in Gaza in the last month than in the Bosnian genocide. More Palestinian civilians that the number of hostages taken by Hamas are killed nightly. 40% of those are children. There are 10x more Palestinian civilians detained without charge or trial by Israel than the hostages taken. There is extensive documented abuse of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli custody.

And, again, bombing the fuck out of where the hostages are being held while refusing to negotiate is a terrible way to rescue them.

"Concern" for the hostages by people who are not primarily demanding a ceasefire is either 1) cynical cover to carry out very textbook and very blatant genocide or 2) people who have been taken in by the people doing 2.

I'm sorry that guy died, though. Maybe that doesn't balance out surrounding a hospital full of people you wounded with bombing and shelling it with tanks, which is happening as I type this.

1, not 2.

All the well meaning folks on the left who want to shit on Biden are really going to enjoy Trump's second Muslim ban and DOJ that locks up and throws cases at them for "resisting."

If you think Trump wouldn't let Israel turn Gaza to glass you're kidding yourself. Meanwhile, Biden has convinced Israel to a daily 4 hour humanitarian pause in fighting in northern Gaza.

It’s so nice of Biden to get a 4 hour pause in the mass murder while he sends weapons to enable mass murder the other 20 hours

He should get the fucking Nobel peace prize

So you're saying it is all things considered it would have been morally better for Biden admin not to negotiate a daily ceasefire from the war monger Bibi?

You see Palestinians as so subhuman that you you’re fine with ‘politically acceptable’ levels of mass murdering them

One Jewish guy cracking his skull in a fall is outrageous and intolerable to you but a couple hundred extra dead Palestinian children gets a yawn

Are you autistic? Like you have some weird cognitive blind spots on where you make up a proposition that I have not uttered then attempt to put it in my mouth. Like are you hyper-fixating right now?

Totally fucking weird. Like over a few weeks on this site I have said views that are consistent with your pro-Palestinian positions and your anti-Israeli government criticisms, but have criticized Hamas and how pro-Palestinian protest has opened the door to bigotry.

But to your mind that some logically entails (it doesn't) I want Palestinians dead or I think they're subhuman?

Seriously, dude. Where are you getting this? Honest question. Your inferential leaps about me aren't defensible given the evidence you have.

Like straight up if you are literally incapable of uttering:

1. It is utterly morally horrible that Palestinians are dying as a result of IDF actions;

2. But it is a moral improvement in the situation, though not ideal nor good enough, that there is now a daily ceasefire in northern Gaza

I'm not sure you're thinking rationally or clearly. You kind of come off as if, not autistic, like you're in some fight or flight mode where you're not processing data you're being presented with.

the 'lesser evil' argument has degraded your humanity to the point that you are now claiming that support for 20 hour per day genocide is morally acceptable

Show me the sentence where I said it was morally acceptable?

What I said was that it's better than not.

I then ask you or SolRo or anyone if you disagree to state your disagreement of that proposition explicitly.

Talking to you is like shadow boxing. i say X, you claim I said Y, then I clarify, and ask if you endorse X or not and you respond with Z.

We can totally have a discussion on the merits. Do you agree or disagree that a 4 our pause is better than not having one?

My position is this: Bibi is a war monger. There are right-wing nuts in the Israeli government who would be happy if all Palestinians were killed. Hamas wants Israel and Jews wiped off the face of the Earth and this is wrong. Palestinians deserve their own state and not to be murdered by crazy right-wing Israelis. There are average Palestinians and Israeli Jews that want a two-state solution and to end the violence. And that pro-Palestinian protests in the United States as a matter of fact, despite largely being the work of well-meaning people, have devolved at times into antisemitism and attacking Jewish people who have nothing to do with the conflict and that this is not morally right.

I'll point out that you are making some far-fetched character judgements which are fallacious btw and then using those character judgements to presume I accept certain propositions I don't, then argue against the propositions you alone suppose I accept. It's fucking weird.

So, I above have stated plainly my position. Now, I challenge either of you to state which sentence explicitly you disagree with in my position and which if any you agree with.

i too would enjoy hearing from the goldilocks caucus on how they would instantly solve a multi generational conflict that's been brewing since before the united states even existed

"Show me the sentence where I said it was morally acceptable?"

> "So you're saying it is all things considered it would have been morally better for Biden admin not to negotiate a daily ceasefire from the war monger Bibi?"

Supporting 20 hours per day of genocide IS explicitly supporting genocide. Democrats have been forbidden from even SAYING THE WORD ceasefire.

11,000 Palestinians have been murdered in the last 30 days. Ambulances, bakeries, hospitals, schools have all been targeted by Israel.

I don't want to hear about your fake antisemitism claims. Nobody is attacking Jews en masse in America, full stop. Criticism of the genocide being perpetrated by Israel is not antisemitism. Protests in support of Palestine are not antisemitism. Get the fuck out of here with your absolute nonsense.

Lying about this shit may have worked for decades but you pushed it too far, and now even the normies can see that Israel is a monstrous evil that wields so much influence within the US government that it overrides the needs of the American people. he cat is out of the bag on this. Things will change rapidly in Israel.

"i too would enjoy hearing from the goldilocks caucus on how they would instantly solve a multi generational conflict that's been brewing since before the united states even existed"

The conflict has existed since exactly 1948; the idea that it is 'thousands of years old' is completely false. I'd solve by ending financial and military support for the belligerent fascist nation.

"Hamas wants Israel and Jews wiped off the face of the Earth and this is wrong."

Hamas has changed their position to support a two state solution along 1967 borders and the de facto recognition of Israel. They also state differentiate between Jews and Zionism. From the 2017 charter:

"Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, antisemitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage."

I'm sure this is partly bullshit, and I am sure that they still have a problem with antisemitism. I do not support Hamas and I do not think war crimes and targeting civilians are ever justified. But they're not cartoon villains any more than, say, the IRA were.

"And that pro-Palestinian protests in the United States as a matter of fact, despite largely being the work of well-meaning people, have devolved at times into antisemitism and attacking Jewish people who have nothing to do with the conflict and that this is not morally right."

Antisemitism is bad. But it's not a major feature of any pro-palestinian protests in the US. People made similar noises about BLM protests, and finding and publicizing the crazyest person you can find at a protest is a common tactic for trying to discredit said protest. Pro-palestinian protesters are also getting punched. It's a rhetorical strategy for defending the indefensible.

"i too would enjoy hearing from the goldilocks caucus on how they would instantly solve a multi generational conflict that's been brewing since before the united states even existed"

As I have cited previously, prior to the first wave of Zionist migration in 1882, Jews constituted 2-5% of the population of Palestine, and they got along fine with their neighbors. Jews and Muslims have had a much less fractious history than Jews and Christians. The Jews who fled Catholic Spain largely fled to the Ottoman Empire. Zionism created conflict that had not existed prior.

The two state solution has been made impossible due to Israeli settlement in the west bank and east jerusalem. So there are three options. The first is the status quo ante of slow ethnic cleansing the West Bank. The second is the rapid genocidal ethnic cleansing that we're seeing now. The only other option is democracy and human rights for everyone in mandate Palestine, that is, a secular multi ethnic democracy.

—“The residents of Gaza, who saw fit to turn the hospitals into terrorist nests in an attempt to take advantage of Western morality, are the ones who brought their destruction upon themselves – terrorism must be eliminated everywhere and in any way. Attacking terrorist headquarters located inside a hospital is the right, and even the duty of the IDF.”

Upon initial examination, one might think these are sentences written by extremists or fanatics, giving an army permission and encouragement to bomb hospitals. What is shocking is not only the statement itself, but that it is signed publicly by dozens of Israeli doctors and shared widely on various social media platforms.

Instead of immediate outrage and condemnation, the statement resulted in what some called a “legitimate” public debate within the Israeli medical community, to bomb or not to bomb Palestinian hospitals.

—

Israelis are white nationalist scum and a small percentage of them being naive leftists doesn’t change that.

A large percentage of them hating yahoo is because he got a bunch of them killed, not because they feel bad for Palestinians

I read it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I, too, do not want to be killed. I'd guess that a majority of Palestinians don't want to be killed.

I'd be hesitant to interpret further, but I'm hopeful that this may mean that Israelis have come to understand that expansionism does not equal security.

You honestly support that Israeli propaganda?? JFC JHMF

Only at the lowest membership level that will get me access to the Passport streaming service.

Genocide is funny, just like the holocaust

I just don't understand where the Israeli propaganda is. Is it "there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be killed", or is it "expansionism does not equal security"? Please enlighten me.

Isreal has never shown its evidence that there are Hamas headquarters under hospitals or wherever it mass murders civilians “because Hamas”

I didn’t think you’d still be this dumb after two decades of America claiming any dead brown person over the age of 14 is a de facto terrorist

Jesus, is it me? I don't think Im saying whatever you think I'm saying.

"Expansionism" refers to the building of settlements. My understanding is that Israel uses "security" to justify continued settlement, and I'm saying that's bullshit.

You read a statement about Israelis saying it’s okay to bomb hospitals full of civilians and then basically said ‘both sides’

The REALLY stupid part is that you expected me to understand that,