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Desc:THE SKY IS FALLING!
Category:News & Politics, Educational
Tags:rape, Republican, cena mark, judd gregg, crying wolf
Submitted:simon666
Date:03/24/09
Views:1287
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Comment count is 16
Caminante Nocturno - 2009-03-24
"No generation should do this to another generation."

The second he said that, I was overcome with a powerful urge to rip his mandible off and scoop his eyes out with it.
Ursa_minor - 2009-03-24
Judd Gregg is weirdly close to Judge Dredd.
Senator_Unger - 2009-03-24
Republicans are adorable. It's like they don't think we remember or have tapes of their speeches of the last eight years.
baleen - 2009-03-24

Other countries that have already done what we're doing when this shit happened to them:

Sweden spent 4% of its GDP in the the early 90's glut for partial ownership in banks. They have remained remarkably secure through all this.

In 1998 Japan bought 500 bln in preferred stock from their crumbling and corrupt banks, equivalent to about trillion in American cash at that time. Japan is also faring a bit better than we are right now.

What Republicans don't want to admit is that they would probably do something very similar to this if they were still in power. They are just hedging bets on the future of their party that come next congressional election cycle we will still be in the shit and they can create the chimera of inflation as an attack strategy.

Which is a pretty shitty thing to do, since human life is at stake. But that never really seems to bother them any more.



simon666 - 2009-03-24
I'm not going to even get into it, but his double talk is fucking outrageous. This man uses words so loosely I wouldn't doubt he swallowed a suppository before this interview.
voodoo_pork - 2009-03-24
Weirdly enough, Gregg is half-correct. America is a functionally bankrupt nation, but not because of Obama's budget. His generation is creating a different kind of debt that we'll have to pay. The US government is running out of money trying to create exponential economic "growth" through several future-less proposals.

1: An unsustainable infrastructure in the form of commercial sprawl, highways, and roads.

2: Trying to sustain an artificially inflated suburban housing market. The truth is, not everyone can own a house.

3: Failure to reduce the military budget and using those funds in more socially productive ways.

4. Agriculture grown by petroleum-based fertilizers. Another future-less model.

5. Flooding zombie banks and financial instutions with zero accountability with open-ended cash. These Ponzi-scheme models of financial architecture are totally fucked.

The real fallacy here is not that Gregg is talking out of his ass, but that he's placing the blame squarely on anything and anyone but the people really responsible, including himself. Obama, for all his intelligence, is pathetically behind the curve that we can't keep doing this shit forever. Exponential economic growth is physically impossible. Almost every move that the Obama administration is making is to support this unsustainable model of living.
baleen - 2009-03-24
"Exponential economic growth is physically impossible. Almost every move that the Obama administration is making is to support this unsustainable model of living."

I assume you meant continued economic growth. What evidence do you have to support this?

"4. Agriculture grown by petroleum-based fertilizers. Another future-less model. " Uh... that's jumping the gun a little. I am fairly sure there are technological innovations capable of addressing this issue in the long term and it is not an immediate concern.

"Trying to sustain an artificially inflated suburban housing market. The truth is, not everyone can own a house." I agree with this, but I think we'll see urbanization of older suburbs in the coming years and a decline of "deep suburbs," increased density overall, and increased public transit networks. The market seems to be taking care of our sprawl problem for us.

"
5. Flooding zombie banks and financial instutions with zero accountability with open-ended cash. These Ponzi-scheme models of financial architecture are totally fucked." Yeah are you paying attention to any of the regulatory measures being proposed? Krugman writes with extreme lucidity about this.

chumbucket - 2009-03-24
3: Failure to reduce the military budget and using those funds in more socially productive ways.

Like buying more paint for the VW bus?

voodoo_pork - 2009-03-24
I know, maaaaan. Check it out, I made a pair of hemp pants out of my Berkley degree!

simon666 - 2009-03-24
Nations can do this "shit" perpetually as long as the at times pay down their debt. In the 1950s the percent of US debt to GDP was 90%, today its mid 60% give or take. And in fact it is borrowing that allows economies to grow, new money must injected at times.

Using the term "bankrupt" is dishonest, countries do not go bankrupt the way individuals and corporations do, and the result is not the same either. The IMF/World Bank were setup specifically after WWII to prevent bankruptcies and depressions, reasons then seen as causing the war.

With that said, voodoo pork, what the hell does it mean when you say roads and highways are "future-less"? Road building provides work (job creation), maintaining roads does the same, more overall road more man power needed to maintain them.

Your point on the suburban housing bubble mischaracterizes the actions of the administration. What is trying to be done is to shore up current threats to the banking system. No one is suggesting going back to a time when people who cannot afford homes are able to buy them on credit they will never be able to pay back. Furthermore, while not everyone can own a home, a lot more people should be able to own them, that is how markets grow. A tenant of our society is that an individual can work hard and increase their wealth and quality of living. If the individual is not enabled through the mechanics of that society, then it is failing to live up to its own standards of success.

Your 3rd point is basically a moral one, arguing reducing spending on the military is "not worth it" when the money would instead go to quality of life institutions. A strong military is worthwhile, we agree on that point, however, as a moral person I cannot justify spending money unnecessarily on an institution whose job it is is to decrease the quality of life for others. And I ask you how to reconcile how, in times of peace, the military is no more than a socialist institution? People are given jobs and job training, places to live, and education in trade for their time.

Smellvin - 2009-03-24
While I think huge deficits (which are projected to double federal debt over ten years -- and budget projections have traditionally been extraordinarily optimistic) are probably the largest problem the government faces right now, I didn't hear any Republicans whining when they had both congress and the presidency and they were setting the precedent for this just-charge-it-to-the-federal-credit-card attitude.
kingarthur - 2009-03-24
How long, I wonder, until they think we've forgotten all of that and start to publicly disown Bush as a re-election tactic?

SteamPoweredKleenex - 2009-03-24
They've already started the disowning process. You can hear it in their mating cries of "Bush wasn't a REAL conservative" or "I'm not a Republican, I'm a Libertarian."

voodoo_pork - 2009-03-24
Whoa dude, you're killing my buzz! Bad vibes!

The whole point is that no one is having the discussion we are. They're just trying to get back to "business as usual": a high-debt, sprawl-building, oil-based economy that has poor prospects for the future. It's thinking long, long term, and not just how we can get an artificial number like the Dow Jones to some arbitrary number again. Our project should be creating a supportive web of relationships that has a productive direction, such as changing our philosophy on how commerce should be run and sustained.

"Future-less" means that busy work, like highway and road construction, isn't good enough for sustainable, functioning communities. We don't need more roads. We don't need more highways. What we need to be doing is re-evaluating why our infrastructure is so fubar to begin with. The US Highway trust is running a deficit for the first time ever!

The same market that baleen is claiming is "fixing" the problem are the exact same forces with the exact same people that caused this clusterfuck to begin with. A few people get singled out, like Madoff. He's not the problem. Nearly everytime a laissez-fair attitude is applied to this situation, a handful get stinking rich and everyone else, who is working their asses off, gets little and loses more.

"A tenant of our society is that an individual can work hard and increase their wealth and quality of living." This is flat-out crock of shit. You have a fucked-up idea of what "wealth" and "quality of living" actually is, my friend. I love how libertarians selectively forget about social privilege.
simon666 - 2009-03-24
First, I am not a Libertarian. Second, the point I was making in mentioning the "tenant of our society" was that regardless of how accurate that is in play, it is a belief that is commonly held, and because it is such, it is a great starting point for conversation. Third, as someone who is working class, that is to say I've had a job since I was 14, my parents worked wage jobs their entire lives, never able to own a home or new car, I have a very good understanding of social privilege. Basically you're setting up a straw-man to knock down. In my response to your initial posting I criticized your ideas, not assumptions about your character.

However, as it reads, your second post seems to prescribe spending our time now reassessing how we approach economics as a society. While that is a valid position in a vacuum, at the moment it ignores nuance. The type of discussion you are suggesting needs to take place in parallel with policy that makes use of our current economic framework to produce steadied transition, and I would argue that is generally what this administration is doing.

voodoo_pork - 2009-03-25
You're making the mistake of responding to a troll post in a sensible, thought-out manner.

You know better than this!

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